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Brexit 1.01

Wooster

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on: October 19, 2018, 10:45:00 AM
Trying to get my head around what's currently going on.

17.4m voted to leave
16.1m voted to stay

England voted to leave
Wales voted to leave
Scotland voted to remain
Northern Ireland voted to remain
Gibraltar and IoM voted to remain

We're still negotiating the 'how we are going to leave' part, not the trade deal part yet

The 'Backstop'
If I get this right....

The backstop is designed to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic while the next part (the actual trade deal) is going on, because almost everyone involved thinks it'll take far more time than we have allocated
The DUP hate this idea because if the trade talks fail and the Backstop is still in place, it moves the NI border into the Irish Sea/Firth of Clyde, essentially distancing NI from the rest of the UK

And....when we eventually move onto the actual trade talks

Of the 17.4m who voted to leave (and this appears to be the biggest problem of all)
Some want a hard 'WTO rules/no deal' Brexit
Some want a Canada+ (++ or Super Canada, depending on who's saying it) deal
Some want an EFTA (Norway) type deal (as do some of those who voted to remain, as a compromise position)

Is that about right?

-edit- Maybe we need another referendum with four questions on the ballot.

(Do you want:)
1: No Deal
2: A Canada+ Deal
3: A EFTA Deal
4: To Remain

...at least we'd know.  :wink:
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:27:35 PM by Wooster »


richietog

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Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 11:29:43 AM
4 To remain, its a whole lot less complicated for the UK. The Brexiters don't know diddly squat how the EU is run. Quite a few of the Brexiters want another referendum on the basis the campaign was run as a fraudulent campaign, and the NHS bus slogan was an appalling lie

I'm sure the US wants us to go hard, because they get a super deal from UK, at an enormous costs to the UK with hardly a superior quality that they get over there. I'm also meaning that they want to take our NHS and turn it in for  something for themselves


Wooster

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Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 02:26:39 PM
That wasn't a poll btw...only an example.  :wink:


Wooster

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Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 07:07:43 PM
Crunch time approaching and cabinet still in session.

Semantics though.
We had "no deal is better than a bad deal" for ages, which has metamorphosed into the caveat position of "a good deal is better than a bad deal" (no way?..really?), but it's all semantics.

Regardless of which way you voted, we've yet to hear that it's remotely likely to result in a "beneficial" deal for the UK, which was the Brexiteer promise for leaving in the first place.

I still maintain that we should have treated the European Elections more seriously, in order to elect far more capable people than Farage etc. to argue our position.


An opportunity squandered....like so many other British interests over the years.


Glamdring

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Reply #4 on: November 14, 2018, 09:44:42 PM
During the English Civil War (in which the Scots played an important part fighting for the Roundheads), families were driven asunder. Father against son, brother against brother. The same is happening now. I hardly dare mention Brexit to my sister if I don't want a diatribe. We disagree entirely, so since I'd like to maintain my sibling relationship I don't discuss it and if she brings the matter up I nudge it aside as far as I can. Annoying because in every other respect she's pretty bright... ;)

And now we have an agreement. Wonder what'll happen now.


Wooster

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Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 11:54:58 PM
The English civil war was a sectarian issue (Protestant v Catholic) and I think it started in Scotland.

How did that turn out?




Glamdring

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Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 10:52:51 AM
Certainly not sectarian in the way the Troubles were in NI.
Charles wanted more Catholicism, the other powers wanted Protestantism but it was way more than that. Charles' profligacy played a major role. As I pointed out it split families who were of the same religion, broke friendships and the rest.
Oddly, the Covenanters were Presbyterian, and yet:
Quote
The end of the civil war in Scotland. The first English Civil War had ended in May 1646, when Charles I surrendered to the Scottish Covenanter army in England. After failing to persuade the King to take the Covenant, the Scots finally handed him over to the commissioners of Parliament in early 1647.
This in turn led to Cromwell's ugly Puritan rule and the horrific things he did in Ireland. He only lasted eight years and his body was quartered and spread about the land. Charles II was brought in (not that he was any good) and things proceeded as normal until he was chased away and William and Mary took over and life improved.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 10:55:53 AM by Glamdring »


Wooster

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Reply #7 on: November 15, 2018, 12:19:43 PM
We got rid of a Catholic monarch, who was eventually replaced by a Protestant monarch who arrived with an invasion force.
So it was a sectarian conflict, whichever way you want to cut it.

Anyhoo, we have resignations aplenty today.

Dominic Raab stated that he's been working hard to get a good deal.
His tenure could be measured in days though.  :rolleyes:


richietog

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Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 08:37:08 PM
Rees-Mogg is an annoying tit
https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a22513246/jacob-rees-mogg-claims-we-might-not-see-benefits-of-brexit-for-50-years/

But I guess you didn’t need me to yell you that

See that Corbyn enjoyed sticking the knife into the Tory government

He is also hoping that the chaos leads to a new election, which will see him change tune on Brexit
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 08:41:06 PM by richietog »


richietog

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Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 04:44:53 PM
OMG, heard it all now

Some retarded Brexiteers claim that Rees Mogg and Farage are not the ruling class, but working "for a living". Shit, these people have more money than sense with their self interest at hand