PC-Forums
General Discussion => News => Topic started by: Wooster on October 19, 2018, 10:45:00 AM
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Trying to get my head around what's currently going on.
17.4m voted to leave
16.1m voted to stay
England voted to leave
Wales voted to leave
Scotland voted to remain
Northern Ireland voted to remain
Gibraltar and IoM voted to remain
We're still negotiating the 'how we are going to leave' part, not the trade deal part yet
The 'Backstop'
If I get this right....
The backstop is designed to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic while the next part (the actual trade deal) is going on, because almost everyone involved thinks it'll take far more time than we have allocated
The DUP hate this idea because if the trade talks fail and the Backstop is still in place, it moves the NI border into the Irish Sea/Firth of Clyde, essentially distancing NI from the rest of the UK
And....when we eventually move onto the actual trade talks
Of the 17.4m who voted to leave (and this appears to be the biggest problem of all)
Some want a hard 'WTO rules/no deal' Brexit
Some want a Canada+ (++ or Super Canada, depending on who's saying it) deal
Some want an EFTA (Norway) type deal (as do some of those who voted to remain, as a compromise position)
Is that about right?
-edit- Maybe we need another referendum with four questions on the ballot.
(Do you want:)
1: No Deal
2: A Canada+ Deal
3: A EFTA Deal
4: To Remain
...at least we'd know. :wink:
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4 To remain, its a whole lot less complicated for the UK. The Brexiters don't know diddly squat how the EU is run. Quite a few of the Brexiters want another referendum on the basis the campaign was run as a fraudulent campaign, and the NHS bus slogan was an appalling lie
I'm sure the US wants us to go hard, because they get a super deal from UK, at an enormous costs to the UK with hardly a superior quality that they get over there. I'm also meaning that they want to take our NHS and turn it in for something for themselves
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That wasn't a poll btw...only an example. :wink:
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Crunch time approaching and cabinet still in session.
Semantics though.
We had "no deal is better than a bad deal" for ages, which has metamorphosed into the caveat position of "a good deal is better than a bad deal" (no way?..really?), but it's all semantics.
Regardless of which way you voted, we've yet to hear that it's remotely likely to result in a "beneficial" deal for the UK, which was the Brexiteer promise for leaving in the first place.
I still maintain that we should have treated the European Elections more seriously, in order to elect far more capable people than Farage etc. to argue our position.
An opportunity squandered....like so many other British interests over the years.
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During the English Civil War (in which the Scots played an important part fighting for the Roundheads), families were driven asunder. Father against son, brother against brother. The same is happening now. I hardly dare mention Brexit to my sister if I don't want a diatribe. We disagree entirely, so since I'd like to maintain my sibling relationship I don't discuss it and if she brings the matter up I nudge it aside as far as I can. Annoying because in every other respect she's pretty bright... ;)
And now we have an agreement. Wonder what'll happen now.
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The English civil war was a sectarian issue (Protestant v Catholic) and I think it started in Scotland.
How did that turn out?
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Certainly not sectarian in the way the Troubles were in NI.
Charles wanted more Catholicism, the other powers wanted Protestantism but it was way more than that. Charles' profligacy played a major role. As I pointed out it split families who were of the same religion, broke friendships and the rest.
Oddly, the Covenanters were Presbyterian, and yet:
The end of the civil war in Scotland. The first English Civil War had ended in May 1646, when Charles I surrendered to the Scottish Covenanter army in England. After failing to persuade the King to take the Covenant, the Scots finally handed him over to the commissioners of Parliament in early 1647.
This in turn led to Cromwell's ugly Puritan rule and the horrific things he did in Ireland. He only lasted eight years and his body was quartered and spread about the land. Charles II was brought in (not that he was any good) and things proceeded as normal until he was chased away and William and Mary took over and life improved.
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We got rid of a Catholic monarch, who was eventually replaced by a Protestant monarch who arrived with an invasion force.
So it was a sectarian conflict, whichever way you want to cut it.
Anyhoo, we have resignations aplenty today.
Dominic Raab stated that he's been working hard to get a good deal.
His tenure could be measured in days though. :rolleyes:
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Rees-Mogg is an annoying tit
https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a22513246/jacob-rees-mogg-claims-we-might-not-see-benefits-of-brexit-for-50-years/
But I guess you didn’t need me to yell you that
See that Corbyn enjoyed sticking the knife into the Tory government
He is also hoping that the chaos leads to a new election, which will see him change tune on Brexit
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OMG, heard it all now
Some retarded Brexiteers claim that Rees Mogg and Farage are not the ruling class, but working "for a living". Shit, these people have more money than sense with their self interest at hand
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I wonder how many people voted for the deal that's on the table?
I doubt it's many.
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Thats the thing Wooster no-ones voted for a deal all we did was stupidly vote to leave Europe not how we leave just leave so to be honest any deal we get is probably better than no deal
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Are we expected to feel sympathy for Theresa May now?
That seems to be the opinion of the likes of the Daily Fail "aww it's such a shame for her and we should get behind poor Theresa who's worked so hard"
Bollocks, you reap what you sow kid.
She's the one who recklessly triggered Article 50, without considering the ramifications, and launched the good ship UK up shit creek.
Realising her mistake, she then lost months more of the short amount of time she had left by triggering a General Election, in the expectation that she'd be able to fill the boat with her own supporters, with her hunched proudly at the helm.
That tactic failed so badly that she lost her majority, knocking the rudder off the boat and managed the resulting directionless crisis so badly that the fucking propellers fell off. :cheesy:
She was a shit minister, she's been a shit Prime Minister and we're expected to feel Sorry for her?
She can go fuck herself. :rolleyes:
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May visited Scotland yesterday, to sell her deal, but blink and you'd have missed the token gesture.
She was never more than 12 minutes away from the airport (possibly less, since that's the driving time when you don't have a Police escort :smiley:) and the only people aware of it were invited members of the press.
https://goo.gl/maps/7iVDFyEL6AD2
"Visit Scotland" - Tick
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Interesting week, so far.
One of the standout (and under reported) elements of the legal advice given by the Attorney General (a long term Brexiteer apparently)...and possibly a bigger reason for the Gov's reluctance to publish it, is his legal opinion that the UK cannot unilaterally revoke Article 50.
Granted his advice was written up before the Advocate General of the EU announced that the UK can, but if some of our politicians hadn't fought the Government to find out whether it was possible or not, then the Government line would have been false. (The Government didn't want to know if it was possible and fought tooth and nail to deny the UK public the possibility of knowing this for themselves.)
Therefore, the Attorney General had no basis to advise that we would need agreement from the other EU countries.
He didn't know, because they didn't wan't to know and he's been caught blagging it.
The 'backstop' problem was already known, so not really news.
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Only people to blame for all this mess and crap is the people who voted out (most i believe probably have an iq under 10!) was always a stupid idea and now we are seeing the fruition of their stupidness!
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I often wonder where we'd be now if the majority of the UK electorate had been convinced to get on board with the idea of the EU from the day they let us in and bailed us out, instead of electing complete tits like Nigel Farage and David Coburn as representatives.
Even when the likes of Thatcher was at her most anti-EU, the UK still held a lot of influence......but the Tories have finally fucked it..and probably themselves.
It's easy to blame the media (or the half dozen pricks who own most of it)...so I will.
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The problem I've always thought was that in the early 70s the War still glowed brightly in the minds of many and that set us apart from the Continent. We just didn't trust the French, especially when de Gaulle said he'd oppose our joining. After all the support and help we give him during the War. That went down very badly here.
We had booklets and leaflets galore extolling the virtues of joining such that when the vote came I voted In, my first ever vote. I was still in school. But we voted for an extended trading partnership, not a European federation with political rule from Brussels. The devil only slowly emerged from the depths.
Then came the CAP, something we didn't understand, and the fact tiny French farms were given a fortune to keep running when they were wholly uneconomic. France, being a major player, got its way and our money went directly to them. We didn't see, though it did exist, money come from the EEC, to our farmers.
And then came the ECJ. Oh, how much bother that has created here. Ten years to get rid of that lunatic muslim, the one with no hands, because they kept stopping us from deporting him for the stupidest of reasons. That cut deeply into our sense of self-rule.
And then came 2008 and Greece, which cost me personally thousands of pounds. The Greeks got loads of money they'll never pay back. Not that much from us, mostly from Germany but the principal was there. Spain too, and Italy, vibrant countries well capable of taking care of themselves but they don't because they have a rubbish tax system, so they are net takers.
The thing is we never saw what the EU gave us, we were only shown the negative side - down to the anti-EU media and the scabby Murdoch and his slimy son.
The rest of the world is laughing, and that hurts.
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Michael Howard says we should just stop checking lorries to prevent tailbacks after Brexit.
If the French decide to do the same thing our primary import will probably become human males from the Middle East and Africa. :cheesy:
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If May goes after the vote, who would replace her?
Is Boris waiting in the wings for just this opportunity?
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He's not that popular in his own party, it'd probably someone they could all compromise on.
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Maybe if Gordon Brown stood by his instinct on Europe this mess may have never happened.
He didn't want to sign the Lisbon Treaty, centralising The EU further. He sent David Milliband in his stead to the official ceremony and later signed the treaty with the other leaders as witness in private. I think he knew it was taking us in to deep. Somewhat ironically the LT also realised a country's legal right to exit The EU. Brown knew the furthering removal of national governmental say in The EU, holding power over to an ever evolving federal superstate would cause issues further down the line. He was right.
That's just a theory of mine though.
At the end of the day those who wish Brexit tend to be in businesses that are restricted to trade individually with other markets, those that stand to profit most.
And if not they wear Burberry, own pitbulls and hate those cunts that steal "their" jobs that they're not prepared to do.
I wonder how many of them realise that Farage is one of only two MEPs that refuse to declare his financial interests. How many leavers that still wish to leave know of Mr Farage's links to Damien Lyon Lowe and how together they used Lowe's Survation group and insights to manipulate the money markets causing the pound to crash on referendum night. Farage and Lowe made an alleged killing. Goal complete, money made, time to step down as UKIP leader and let the real bigots get on with hating people.
New referendum to remain, that's the only decent option AFAIC.
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I suspect those who support Farage do so only on his 'pint in a pub' image and know nothing about him otherwise. He's despicable.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-25/brexit-big-short-how-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash
There's a notable lack of any investigation into this.
Anyhoo
If you order a steak in a restaurant and the kitchen serves you up a plate of dogfood, you're within your rights to refuse it.
You don't, as many Tory MP's claim, have to hold your nose and force the disgusting mess down.
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The ECJ says that the UK can cancel without permission of tge other 27 members permission
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May has cancelled the commons vote, perhaps in light of the EU court's ruling that the UK can cancel Brexit, without votes from other member states.
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We noticed, but it's not going to make any difference. It's still going to be chaos and we're all going to be poorer (except for the rich, who'll have emigrated).
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....and the Government fought tooth and nail to prevent you from knowing that.
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Made me laugh last night when they all started complaining that they didn't get the chance to vote on wether to postpone the vote or not! What a load of Tossers! All they ever want to do is moan and complain about the other parties not one of them actually has an idea or a solution on how to get out of this mess we all got ourselves into!
Corbyn wont call for a general election if hes got any brains as if he gets in it will be him who has to sort it out and as a staunch remain person hows he going to get a good deal for the 50% who voted out and still please the 50% who wanted to remain? Will be the same mess as May.
Could keep going on but cant be arsed as no matter what they will mess it up and we the normal folks will suffer as usual
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Where's that cunt Cameron hiding? :mad:
On a lighter note:
Anyone else think that David Lidington looks like a talking bollock? :azn:
=79
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There's a Tory conspiracy to get rid of John Bercow coming soon to a political soap opera near you.
They don't like the fact that he "kinda" berated the PM for withdrawing the vote at hour eleven.
Going to try and paint him as abusing his position, as comprising his "indifference" for his own stance on Europe. Andrea (midden) Ledsom as good as announced it on Beeb Radio 4 this morning.
I couldn't help but omit a small ironic laugh. Conservative in fighting. Isn't that why we're in this whole embarrassing mess in the first place?
David (honey where's the kids) Cameron tried to resolve party in fighting by holding a referendum. And they're still fucking at it!
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His jacket's been on a shoogly peg for a while, with accusations of bullying....or maybe shouting at people.
Shouting at people is in the job description I'd have thought. :smiley:
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He does strike me as a bit of a cunt mind you.
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Aye, I've thought that myself, but he seems to know his stuff (Nerd?) when it comes to parliamentary law, process and convention.
Especially over the last week.
Nobody likes the ref...it's another part of the job description I suppose. :azn:
He kinda, sort of, almost let Ian Blackford call Theresa May a liar...inadvertently, last week.
A lot of MP's were thinking it and probably wanting to say it, but he gave Blackford just enough leeway to make the implication without actually saying it.
That bumped him up in my estimation a wee bit.
Kudos on Blackford as well. :cool:
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The BBC says that 'the tectonic plates' within the Tory party are shifting and that enough letters might have hit the Tory secretary to trigger a no confidence vote.
I'm not sure about the BBC's verbiage there.
'The crust on the cowshit' is probably more accurate.
It could be a bit of political manoeuvring though.
If the Tories trigger a no confidence vote from within, but then change tack and stand by her in the vote, she's locked in for another year as their leader.
If Labour then trigger a no confidence vote in Parliament, they have even less chance of winning a General Election due to the fact that Theresa May...as incompetent and politically damaged as she is, is still more popular than Jeremy Corbyn.
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:cheesy:
She probably looks like him naked as well. :smiley:
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I still can't see anyone more electable than her in the Tory party. This comment isn't a mark of support, more a twinge of desperation at the lack of quality politicians in the UK over the last 20 years.
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It could be a bit of political manoeuvring though.
If the Tories trigger a no confidence vote from within, but then change tack and stand by her in the vote, she's locked in for another year as their leader.
That's a thought, but surely the no confidence vote has been on the cards for some time?
It's a shame this isn't a video game and we can't load a saved game from 22nd June 2016, replay the action and all come to our senses.
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I really pity whoever has to take over from her if she is ousted as no matter what happens half the country will not be happy.
The referendum should never have happened in the first place......
However i do see the EU crumbling a bit the past few years i think its getting itself caught in to much red tape etc... and to big by letting every country that wants to be part of it in bit like the Eurovision song contest! Wonder when we see Israel and Australia as part of the EU?
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Where's that cunt Cameron hiding? :mad:
Bloody hell, it's Groundhog Day.
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/1072796129711046661
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to big by letting every country that wants to be part of it in bit like the Eurovision song contest! Wonder when we see Israel and Australia as part of the EU?
No country has joined since Croatia 5 years ago and before that it was 6 years, 11 years from now.
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200 for, 137 against. Amuch better result for her than has been predicted on all the media all day. She'll sleep tonight.
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I suspect that the extra letters required to trigger it were submitted by her supporters.
If so, it's a canny bit of politics to put the hard liners in her party's gas at a peep. They're stuck with her now.
But....
If Labour trigger a no confidence vote on the Government itself, could they now rely on 137 votes from the Tories own benches?
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Not if it even looked as if Corbyn had a chance of winning.
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I don't think so either, it's a different bowl of turds. :smiley:
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You might as well face it...
It seems that the Tory Government now intend to stall their way to a hubristic 'no deal' exit to satisfy the long term minority demands of their divided party.
They never gave a fuck about you anyway.
-edit- This is just a placemarker post to remind me where I was. :grin: (I'm having a day or three off politics)
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Nebulous my arse.
He said "that's incredulous!"
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The tories won't go back to the electorate because they (and some of the media play along with this) say that it's a 'betrayal of democracy'.
If promising much but delivering nothing, then finding it more acceptable (for their own political agenda) to drag the UK out of any form of negotiated deal with a meat hook (breaking the Good Friday Agreement in the process) and being found in contempt of Parliament in the process, isn't a 'Betrayal of Democracy', then I don't know what one is.
Corbyn is probably lapping this up, it's the One Party System he's always dreamed of, and it doesn't seem to matter that the party isn't his. :rolleyes:
p.s. Theresa May isn't giving one fuck either, she's taken a leaf out of David Cameron's book and effectively resigned already, leaving someone else to clean up the Tory/UKIP shitbomb.
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I find the whole situation petrifying.
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That's why Scots are so pro Europe......they're saints compared to some of the governments we never voted for and ended up stuck with.
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There are people already unable to get from their doctor their normal prescription because it's unavailable due to Brexit and are having to try 'alternatives'...
Did the Leavers see that coming? I know the Brexiteers in Westminster couldn't give a damn but the rest of us?
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It's probably a result of quicker surgeries and hospitals stocking up....or panic buying, as it's sometimes known.
I've heard that some places are running out of storage as well.
btw, Corbyn did say 'stupid people'....and he's right. :grin:
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There's some Labour movement calling for a general strike to ensure close trade with the EU.
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Maybe 80 years ago...
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I'd consider it
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People or woman?
Calm down dear, it doesn't matter...
A.R.S.E. H.O.L.E.S.
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I saw 'people' but they even had two lip readers arguing over this shite on morning TV. :cheesy:
If he had said 'woman' it's still better that what I'd have called her. :grin:
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I watched Jeremy Hunt spinning a 2nd referendum as "the ruling elite telling the people they'd made a mistake".
Funny that, I see it the totally opposite way....the people telling the ruling elite they've made a cunt of it. :smiley:
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Ministers have voted against a "No Brexit deal", which is good. At least Rees Mogg's company won't make billions out of people's suffering while he gets richer
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More refusals to answer questions about the Seaborne Freight contract
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1082996064179970053/video/1
It seems that it was awarded under special regulations intended to deal with unforeseen circumstances but, since a no deal Brexit was always a possibility and the Government planning for such an event for two years, the government can't explain what those 'unforeseen circumstances' are.
(On the face of it, it appears they've used an emergency regulation to cover up backhanders to their party donors/supporters/cronies)
A someone commented: "When UK Gov announced £2 billion for hard Brexit preparations before Xmas you just knew it was a green light for connected carpet baggers to fill their boots through family and party connections"
And as for due diligence: http://fantasyequitycrowdfunding.blogspot.com/2019/01/what-hell-are-seaborne-freight-up-to.html
The tories are in such a safe position in the face of such weak labour opposition, that they hardly need to try.
It's a wonder they even bother to turn up for work these days. :cheesy:
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Corbyn has called for a General election if May loses the vote next week however whether that would happen is anyone's guess. If she did call an election Labour might just win it which is then more fool Corbyn as he would then have to deal with the mess that is Brexit!
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I’m not sure what’s happened. They voted against a no deal brexit, ye they voted against fhe deal that is being debated
Isn’t politics a wondefully complicated thing
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Corbyn has called for a General election if May loses the vote next week however whether that would happen is anyone's guess. If she did call an election Labour might just win it which is then more fool Corbyn as he would then have to deal with the mess that is Brexit!
That's all he keeps asking for, but the best he could probably manage is a hung parliament.
When it comes down to it, England will have the choice of a Tory party that has a shit plan without Theresa May, or Corbyn's 'no plan to speak of' Labour.
So Theresa will be gone and, if the polls are correct, Labour barely manage, then they'll have to to bin Corbyn and have another party leader elected themselves (Starmer/Gardiner?).
We have an easier decision in Scotland, it'll be an SNP gain and IndyRef2 will be put on hold until the UK gets itself back on its feet again.
We only have 50 odd MP's though, but most of us don't feel it's a good idea to split up if the rest of the UK's average population are on the bones of their arses.
(And our votes don't really matter, do they?) :undecided:
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Is anyone keeping a tally on the full time jobs lost so far on the back of the Brexit referendum?
(Real figures...not government figures.)
The £ is fucked
Retail is fucked (in the face of the perfect storm of cheap online deals)
Manufacturing is fucked (when it shouldn't be)
The NHS is increasingly fucked
Social Welfare is fucked
Personal debt is through the fucking roof.
.... and so on.
It's like a welcome to the 80's and we've not even left yet. :cheesy:
In six months we'll be back to the 70's, and in a couple of years the hard line Brexiteers will have their dreams come true...it'll be back to the 40's, with the old 'Dunkirk Spirit' when we rushed in to protect our European friends without thinking it through and had to run away again.
(Luckily with a lot more success than we managed on Malaya and Singapore.)
..ahh the bad old days eh?
This lassie laid down similar thoughts: https://www.thenational.scot/politics/17343557.brexiteers-obsessed-by-wwii-have-it-all-wrong/
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very interesting this speech!
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Well said.
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Corbyn has called for a General election if May loses the vote next week however whether that would happen is anyone's guess. If she did call an election Labour might just win it which is then more fool Corbyn as he would then have to deal with the mess that is Brexit!
Mhairi Black made this comment:
"While all this was going on, Labour were asking for a General Election while refusing to put forward a motion of no confidence. This strange conundrum with Labour really makes you question if they actually want a General Election at all, or if they’re just posturing so they can pretend they didn’t support Brexit when it turns out to be truly terrible for the people they claim to represent. Surely not … Labour would never ever ever be so sleekit ... "
It doesn't sound far off the mark given Corbyn ramped up his ambiguity about Brexit when Labour started to look too popular and (God Forbid) had a possibility of winning.
Look at these two Net Satisfaction surveys from Feb and then December last year, it's like they're trying to out outplay each other in the unpopularity race. :rolleyes:
-edit- They're maybe also a reflection of how bad that referendum result was, in that you could only ever hope to keep around half the population happy....and that half is split 50/50, which is why they're both bumping along at 25%. :cheesy: [I don't think those graphs show these kind of values]
(http://i67.tinypic.com/8ybc3m.jpg)
http://i67.tinypic.com/8ybc3m.jpg
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2gxlg7k.jpg)
http://i63.tinypic.com/2gxlg7k.jpg
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Good to see that neither are scoring well, but that could mean a really odious alternative...........UKIP anyone? :cry:
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Notable how Farage has been publicly silent of late. Not that I want to hear from him. Should be put down.
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It's weird that the Seabourne contract was (possibly illegally) awarded under an emergency measures clause in the UK and Donald Trump is considering (possibly illegally) invoking an emergency measures clause to fund his Wall in the US.
Far different scales of finance, but the way things are going we could find ourselves funding a wall on the Mexican/US border and the USA funding some bogus ferry company in the UK .
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I got a text message from eToro (online trading platform) last night saying they were reducing leverage limits (playing with the house's money) across the board in the run up to Brexit, due to expected high levels of market volatility.
Due to expected high volatility and possible liquidity issues around the time of the upcoming Brexit vote, we are temporarily implementing new leverage limitations, which will apply before, during and after the vote. These include changes to leverage in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.
From the 14th of January, and until further notice.
They've also restricted the Take Profit limit to 200%
....This is how the likes of Farage etc. make their money.
Wreck the economy after they've shifted their GBP to something safer like USD, then buy GBP cheap when it hits rock bottom.
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Hot off the press
They ayes were 202 and the nays were 230. Corbyn wants to trigger a general election by asking for a no confidence vote
Shows you how cynical Labour under Corbyn is
Apparently its 432 to 202. Now that’s a massive margin, but its still cynical by Labour MPs. They just want a GE to change absolutely nothing on the deal
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I made a whole $20 betting on the £ gaining against the $
The champagne is on me. :cheesy:
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My MP abstained. She doesn't like Corbyn.
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Wonderful.
https://www.quora.com/q/mlywfqwpbqllsdfa/James-OBriens-Unmissable-Exchange-With-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-Over-Brexit-Vote?ch=10&share=3a8f9731
JRM torn to shreds.
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I'm amazed at the way he can filter out the shit and come back with salient points while checking various comments and feeds on his desktop and phone....that's a rare talent. :cool:
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Much closer call than I expected. This really is a cluster****.
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It was a lot closer to defeat than I thought as well.
Talking of the way to work this morning about last nights events and hearing a reply that Corbyn seems no better than the Tories (I can't disagree), I mentioned that I'd read that much of the left wing in Europe are against the EU, and was about to say I didn't know why.
But it immediately occurred to me that the EU has probably delivered better workers rights, pay and working conditions than many of the Trade Union movements have managed in recent decades...and that could be the crux of it.
If the goal of the EU is to make things fairer, then the Trade Unions will find themselves in the same situation as UKIP.....completely irrelevant and, as far as Corbyn et al are concerned, the Labour Party's funding, relevance and influence could dwindle into obscurity.
I'm not saying that the Trade Union movement wasn't on the whole, a force for good, but they could have been looking at a time when many people may have said their goal had been achieved.
(Tbh I'd started thinking that back in the late 80's as a shop steward when I was seeing a lot of 'grievance for grievance sake' disputes that resulted in factory closures and subsequently cancelled my automatic donations (part of Trade Union membership at that time) to the Labour party)
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Do Eskimos hire out igloos so I can go and live in one until it's all over. I'll just sleep the next ten years away and come back to a country that's broken and bitter and even more violent than it already is.
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Apropos of ma previous post, in regards to the Labour Party and its principles of standing up for the working man.
(but not the working woman, if you read on)
The previously Labour led Glasgow City Council fought for 12 years to stymie women having equal pay rates through the courts, but there was never any strikes, but almost as soon as the SNP took control of the council the strikes began and Labour began blaming the SNP for the £500million cost to settle the dispute they had created..
It's sorted now...GCC will mortgage public properties to fund the settlement, but if Labour had agreed that men and women in similar roles deserved equal pay 12 years ago, the bill would have been far less.
Thing is:
Labour and the Unions will try to claim this is a success for them, when they actively fought against it for over a decade, but the mainstream UK press will go along with this myth rather than acknowledge the SNP's role in the settlement.
If you look at any offerings from the usual channels....you'll see strike actions that had no presence until the SNP became involved, and had no bearing on the settlement they'd already promised.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3761012/glasgow-council-women-equal-pay-agreement/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46904784
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-equal-pay-glasgow-city-council-strike-gender-sexism-feminism-scotland-a8734246.html
In a nutshell:
It was a problem created by the Labour led Council and the strikes had no relevance beyond a bit of publicity spin for the very people who created it.
(But they can't miss an opportunity to cast the SNP in a bad light...can they?)
p.s. the Labour run council also shirked on their responsibilities to maintain some public buildings over the years....they're blaming the SNP for that now as well. :rolleyes:
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:laugh:
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:cheesy:
With Dyson fucking off, Singapore has now come into the spotlight as a possible post (hard)Brexit Nirvana that we Britons should aspire to. (to the strains of that tune they play at the proms)
As usual though, these reports fail to mention that you need to be very well off if you hope to stand the smallest chance of making any real material gains, or even living well, in a City State such as Singapore, which has it's own poverty problems.
It's like saying everyone in Britain could live in Canary Wharf. :rolleyes: (-edit- a personal nightmare that would be for me)
(Singapore is a city that probably has very little use for manual workers, unless shipped in from miles away in the early hours of the morning, then right back out again before 9am)
If only we belonged to some kind of collaborative entity that didn't recognise class, protected workers and human rights, ensured that the cost of food was kept as low as possible and had a long term goal of eradicating poverty (regardless of where you choose to live) if we put in a bit of thought when it came to electing those who represent us.
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That's the only the problem. These companies going abroad because of Brexit
They should stay, but it will cost them money, possible jobs because they can't sell abroad if they stayed in the UK
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Are you a member of the European Research Group?
By Law, you have to tell us if you are.
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I have little time for Dyson, but being honest, he's paying his taxes to the full, as far as we know. Millions.
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Are you a member of the European Research Group?
By Law, you have to tell us if you are.
Where did you get that strange idea?
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:azn:
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I thoroughly approved of Tusk's remarks today. He said that we have a bunch of numpty politicians in Westminster and he's perfectly correct.
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With Honda now closing, that leaves only Vauxhall as a major car maker in the UK. I wonder how many of their workers voted Leave. :rolleyes:
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Nissan is still there, but for how long.
Vauxhall is part of GM as well, with all their cars in the EU branded as Opel....so that could be a shaky peg as well.
I did say Brexit would fuck us right back to the 70's.
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Last year Opel said they were still investing here, but we'll see. Time the brought back the Manta. Great looking car.
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Guy at the bottom of my street has one rotting in his garden.
It's one of those baby poo brown ones with the vinyl roof. :azn:
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George Eustice has resigned fearing that the possibility of rejecting a No Deal Brexit would be a 'humiliation' for the Government.
But it's a humiliation of their own devising, is it not?
If they'd never dragged the country into this Tory infighting, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.
He's basically thrown a tantrum.
Fucking idiot.
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Indeed.
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Wasn't it Europe that was the key to bringing down Thatcher, amongst other things of course?
Also, when the British public voted on Brexit, did everyone expect cold turkey, ie a no-deal exit?
In my opinion, a deal with Europe would be much more preferable than nothing at all.
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Yep. Maggie was anti Europe but at the time most of her government were pro - and she was just on the edge of the dementia that got her in the end - and the booze.
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Wasn't it Europe that was the key to bringing down Thatcher, amongst other things of course?
Also, when the British public voted on Brexit, did everyone expect cold turkey, ie a no-deal exit?
In my opinion, a deal with Europe would be much more preferable than nothing at all.
There was never any major deal in play.
They were told to wait before triggering Article 50 (that started the clock ticking) until they had a plan put together, but they jumped the gun and did it with no plan whatsoever....they tried to wing it.
Arrogance, plain and simple
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I see BMW are threatening to pull the Mini production from here, and the engine plant too, if there's no deal. Thousands more jobs.
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Welcome back to boom and bust.
The problem lies with the bubble economy in London and the South East (that's where all the money is channelled to), if it inflates too much then the rest of the country suffers as they try to slow down growth..the difference this time is that they got you to vote for it. :cheesy:
"Every time investment has begun to rise satisfactorily, the emergence of a balance of payments deficit has forced the Government to take strong deflationary measures with the result that the investment boom has petered out again."
Bailing out the banks cost us dear and the 'austerity measures' haven't done much to alleviate it.
Add to the public debt, the private debt and the economy is in a bad way.
So what to do?
I know, why don't we devalue the £ and turn the UK into a 2nd world economy for about 40 years, that way the plebs up north will take the hit (again) while we divest our interests overseas until the economy recovers again...and if it doesn't, who cares? We'll be making enough out of our overseas investments to live a pretty good life regardless.
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I'm so very tired of all of it. Especially the fact the rich don't suffer.
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The well connected ones wont..
I'm tired of it as well, but that's what they're banking on....a roll over acceptance.
Fuck that, it's not happening.
https://stv.tv/news/politics/1436008-eu-citizens-brand-registration-insulting-ahead-of-brexit/
Theresa May's xenophobia writ large.
There are other in their 90's being hit with the same shit.
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Three weeks to go and Liam Fox's "easiest deal in history", in regard to us leaving the EU, is what?
It can't be an empty promise, from a Tory?
(Lets mark it down as some toff talking shit about a decision he's unlikely to suffer the consequences of.)
If parliament have no consensus, it's has to go back to the people who employ them.
If we still vote to leave, then they'll have permission to leave hard.
And, as an aside, Scotland will be independent within the next 20 years (we're sick of the shit). :undecided:
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Felix (cat food) know the Brexit score, they've come up with Felix Concoctions...bit of main ingredient mixed with some cheaper shite (Chicken and crab, Turkey and Wildebeest, Fish and something vaguely fishy
etc. :cheesy:
Hey, chicken is 30% more expensive now than it was a few years ago and when it comes down to feeding the family, or the fucking cat, the cat's on flavoured garbage. :cheesy:
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When you look at the ingredients they don't have much of the named flavour of food, chicken as you mention, so they make do with noses of pig and cow and things.
I ended up buying stuff online, Elk and goose and duck as well as the usual, at 96% of the stated meat. Dear though.
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I see we're on the way to a No Deal. Bastards.
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I guess politicians want a disaster happen to this country. Voted against the agreement yet again. They will never be pleased. Its about time to send them to proper jobs for 5 years before they become a politician
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Tomorrow they vote on taking no deal off the table, then they'll vote extending Article 50, then they'll debate wtf to do after that.
Problem is there's a 3 way (and largely incompatible) split.
Soft Brexit (put your left leg in)
Hard Brexit (take your left leg out)
No Brexit (do the hokey cokey and you shake it all about)
Meanwhile the country, Britain's international reputation and the economy are going to hell in a handcart.
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Michael Gove either has a good doctor, or a good coke dealer (very discrete).
He seems like he's on amphetamines.
I note he called the Labour Party, the Hokey Cokey party today (echoing what I said above)
What's that about? :huh:
Did I hear it somewhere else and repeated it?
btw...as usual (and it happened twice in the space of four hours last night) the BBC cut to some shit before the leader of the 3rd largest party in the UK made his response,
You probably wont care that its the SNP (that's fair enough), but that shit didn't happen when the LibeDems were the 3rd largest party, so deepens the concerns that the BBC are biased.
It would have been an extra couple of minutes of coverage, but no......it's a non event and a two party system as far as the BBC are concerned.
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p.s. All the UK news (BBC/SKY) seem to talk about is the process, they're not really talking about the consequences.
They're quite happy to sit in their bubble inside a bubble (that tented village they have, yakking on about how how it's not going anywhere) and interview politicians all day long.
The very politicians who are unable to come to any consensus over Brexit.
It's not News , we know that.
Maybe a Hard Brexit is politically expedient for all parties, they just don't want to say that, because we could be fucked, but they could all deny responsibility.
The Tories will say they tried (and failed)
The Labour Party will say...err, they wanted something different? (I'm no sure what they want tbh)
The SNP will say we got dragged out, Indyref 2 now (which I fully endorse :wink: )
btw...point is Euro News has been a far better feed today....they even had Farage on, who behaves a bit differently in front of European MP's.
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And the rest of the world looks on and chuckles.
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So according from today's vote, at least there won't be a no deal brexit.
At least that's the good news, but the margin was small, that is kind of worrying
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No new referendum. This is, oddly the most complex and important set of parliamentary decisions made in my lifetime, and I go back to Magna Carta. John was totally pissed, I can tell you!
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They have voted to delay Brexit, but will the rest of the EU follow suit?
Tricky issue with Spain
And Trump should keep his opinions to himself
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True, though Spain will do what Germany tells them. I'm fairly sure the EU is sick to death of us by now and want a solution fast.
Trump is a nutter, and lots of other things I can't be bothered to type.
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More Brexit fatigue
Brexiters are just milking the problems of the country
They want to ruin the country so they can cash in with the misery of a no deal
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Mystery Box economics.
Apparently the City has lost £1 trillion in managed assets (and 7000 jobs with it) already.
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I can only summise that the real reason behind a no deal brexit is currency speculation
The Pound going up slightly today after an agreed delay to the aforementioned subject
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Since Scotland is the senior partner in the UK (James I/VI) I think we should put HM The Queen in charge. She'd do a much better job (the Scots got the stupid referendum right).
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Queen Elizabeth I?
We're a bit more republican than you'd have been told.
Hardly anyone in Scotland cares about the monarchy (minority Orangers and Tories mainly), but we'll give her her place.
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https://www.itv.com/news/border/2015-09-09/sturgeon-republican-or-royalist/ (https://www.itv.com/news/border/2015-09-09/sturgeon-republican-or-royalist/)
However, you may have a point. Too much cold weather making too many up there bad tempered.
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A legacy of Calvinist Presbyterianism (even in an increasingly secular Scotland) has resulted in us being a bit plain spoken.
i.e. If I think you're talking pish, I'll say so, and if you think I'm talking pish...you'd better have a good reason.
If you do, then fair do's. :smiley:
You can't get simpler than that......(it's common in the north, not just Scotland)
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I was Presbyterian until I was six, then Methodist until I was twelve, then I was allowed to see the light and give it all up.
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I have a half sister who goes to church, but beyond that I don't know anyone who's particularly religious.
The catholic side of the family go through the motions, but it's more out of tradition than faith.
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What degree of shite is it that a shite Prime Minister with a history of promising much, but delivering not much, has 'promised' to resign, if MP's vote for her shite deal?
Does scatology have a ranking system?
Is 'distinctly whiffy' on it?
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Of all the votes last night, the two most popular were another referendum and an EEC type deal.
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Like most of the public I despair of them. it'll be a long time before MPs win the trust of the public again.
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There's no compromise or willingness to discuss one among the tories.
They can't even agree among themselves.
If May goes and Gove or Bojo comes in, it'll probably be just as bad, if not worse.
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True. They're vile.
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She going to ask them to vote on half of the deal tomorrow. :rolleyes:
What's next, paragraph by paragraph, word by word then letter by letter? :rolleyes:
-edit- I shit you not, they just mentioned that this might be a possibility (next week) on the news. :huh:
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This is a fucking
Zombie Necrotic Government.
In that it's fucking rank rotten and falling to bits in front of our eyes.
It wouldn't surprise me if we held IndyRef2 and broke away from rUK before they get it sorted out. :rolleyes:
There is another possibility.
That the EU get so pissed off they kick us out without a deal and little prospect of any deals for decades.
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The contracts and agreements we have with them they have with us.
They stiffed us with the Japanese car making agreement though.
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Started in 2013, finalised in 2017 but given the weak involvement in the EU at the MEP level from the UK (Farage is an MEP and so is the equally toady Coburn), it's hardly a surprise.
You get what you vote for, so if you don't care who you send to Europe to represent you, you only have yourself to blame.
Most didn't care who they sent, and the conservative press treated Europe as a joke.....well, it fucking wasn't was it?
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The trouble is that that is how we treated them but not how the French and Germans treated them, so we ended up being overruled constantly.
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Yeah...that was my point.
Other countries sent better negotiators, England sent Farage and for some fucking mad reason, Scotland sent Jabba the Coburn.
(PR....it's a fairer system, but you end up with the odd prick)
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Btw, you might have been treated to a wee bit of good old Presbyterian bigotry today if you'd watched events outside parliament, in the form of a flute band who came down from Livingston to give their support for a protestant Brexit.
So that rules out the Catholic Brexiteers, and probably especially Jacob Rees Mogg (who is some kind of fundamentalist Catholic who's views, and I shit you not, are probably closer to those of the DUP than they are to the general population of the UK).
It's almost like the Brexiteers are some kind of mad collaborative of gullible people who actually hate each other and don't even realise it yet.
I'd love for Jacob Rees Mogg to become the next prime minister, just to see the look on their faces when they realise they've been supporting a 'Tim'....sometime in 2020, maybe 2021. :cheesy:
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Four more votes on Brexit tonight
I just hope the debacle ends soon
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Not tonight apparently. Idiots.
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Goldman Sachs reckon it's cost the economy around £600 million a week so far (2.5% of GDP), echoing the BoE's study that reckons it could be as high as £800 million per week......double the dodgy figure on the brexit bus.
If there's a No Deal exit they expect that we'd lose another 1% of GDP.
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Despair. I really do. I want to lock the whole damned lot of them in Westminster, no toilets, and not let them out until they agree to something reasonable.
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The indicative vote for Common Market 2.0 (the Boles Plan) would have probably have gotten through (it lost 282 - 261) last night if the Tories hadn't vigorously whipped against it.
The reason?
“PM believes that at a stroke the Boles plan would have destroyed main pro-UK argument in a Scottish independence referendum: stay in UK as the only way to maintain full access to Scotland’s largest market in rest of UK”
So they sunk it on the off chance we'll go for IndyRef2 even though it would have been less likely (and even less likely to be successful) if it had gotten through and been implemented.
That's the mentality we're dealing with here.
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I listened to Jacob RM on R4 this morning being interviewed. He's a condescending, arrogant bastard who was happy enough when allowed to talk but when challenged became nasty. Toad of the first order.
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The Haunted Pencil
Now the Tories are freaking out about talking to Corbyn since it's giving credibility to a Marxist.
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And the Governor of the Bank of England says a no-deal is almost certain now.
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The hardline Brexiteers (the rich and their lackeys) come out with statements like "we were told there'd be a 600,000 jobs lost when we left Europe, but it hasn't happened yet!"
Because we haven't left Europe yet.
(The quality of their expertise is probably indicative of this kind of statement....anyone who repeats it is a fucking clown!)
BTW: If we do need to go through European Elections, don't elect anti Euro clowns as if it's a joke, vote like it's more serious than a General Election.
The lack of giving a fuck is what sees the likes of Nigel Fromage and Jabba the Coburn getting in there and getting a fat pension for fuck all.
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It seems to be going even more Trumpian at the moment here. There have been several interviews I have seen where people are claiming, apparently fictitious, polls show the majority support the no-deal they are desperately hoping for. There was a nice clip going around with Krishnan Guru-Murthy basically stopping an interview with John Redwood when he failed to quote any poll supporting what he had just said.
Yesterday I saw a very similar situation with a journalist from the Spectator almost yelling at their counterpart with a series of statements that could only charitably be called opinion but were held out as the researched opinions of the public. People also need to be picked up on the use of the term over-whelming majority too.
I reckon within a few months we'll hear someone using a term along the line of "alternative facts" to defend a statement they've made.
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I've seen that becoming more common as well, they're clinging onto imaginary straws.
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Farage launches new Brexit Party but forgets to register the domain name
https://thebrexitparty.com/
(I hope they snapped up the .co.uk one as well... :cheesy:)
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I see Rees-Mogg's sister has joined as a leader of this new party... God, Rees-Moggs, they're everywhere.
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She said: ".... the politicians are not our masters – they are to do our bidding."
So she aspires to become a politician.
Will she do our bidding though?
(I doubt it.)
Annuziata Rees-Mogg she's called, so there could be an issue if they ever need to rely on the DUP. :cheesy:
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Boris (in the Telegraph) says: "The British people won't be scared into backing a woeful Brexit deal nobody voted for".
But Ipso (Independent Press Standards Organisation) said the article, published on January 7, failed to provide accurate information with "a basis in fact" and ordered a correction to be printed.
The Daily Telegraph defended: 'the piece as "clearly comically polemical" which could not be "reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters".
Which is a long winded version of saying "ahh, we were just having a laugh"
They pay Boris around £275,000 a year for this kind of shite.
Tbh, it isn't really news.
We all know he's a sad, opportunistic prick, who'll (almost literally) do anything to promote himself. :cheesy:
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The Telegraph is having to print an apology for it; the complaints people said Boris' comments were entirely unproven.
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I note Farage is getting some annoyingly good reviews for speeches he's making, and from people who previously loathed him. There seem to be lots of Tories prepared to jump ship to join him in his new Party.
Lizard-eating git that he is.
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Someone should campaign to get people out in numbers to stop them being elected.
They'll do precisely bugger all good in Europe.
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I think Tony Benn (dec) would be turning in his grave with his son
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Is he dead as well? :azn:
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Is he dead as well? :azn:
Probably
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No deal then. Mind, it was always difficult imagining those two parties forming any sort of agreement. Anyone got Guy Fawkes' phone number?
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Aye, it was never going to happen.
More stalling.
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The British Brexit Corporation can see the finish line, so they're giving a 'bit' more time to the parties who oppose it I see.
Corbyn got a whole 20 odd minutes on the Andrew Marr show yesterday.
In the run up to an election they're meant to give an equal amount of time, or some semblance of balance to the parties concerned, but there's a sliding scale which is far from fair.
On QT last week there were four serving members of the Conservative party and one ex treasurer in the audience.
BBC Scotland has been trialling a similar show on their 'Scottish' channel (nobody watches any of it) called The Debate, but a Convenor of the SNP was barred from the audience, with the excuse that the BBC needed to uphold 'balance'.
I think there'll be a lot of people realising and complaining about what a sham they are in the next few years.
#1 Proponent of Nigel Farage and his endeavours to turn the UK into the 51st State of the United States or the latest member of the Russian Federation (depending on who offers him the most money, like Colonel Gadaffi).
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^^ It's like shouting into the wind. :grin:
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Farage got a splatterin' today. He wasn't happy.
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He wasn't.
He was in Edinburgh on Sunday(?) and the cops stopped the nearby McD's from selling milkshakes.
I see British Steel look about due to close with the loss of 4000 direct jobs because of Brexit and the Brexit Party's funding method is under investigation.
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There was a good graph released by Yougov the other day, breaking down voting intentions by age group. It is distressing to be in the first grouping with a 50:50 likelihood of voting for Farage's goons or an unambiguous remain party.
Excuse the immense size(https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2019-05-16/European%20Parliament%20vote%20by%20age-01.png)
The prospect of the Tory leadership contest is pretty bloody terrifying at the moment - is there any likely scenario that comes out with a half reasonable PM? The most optimistic one I can imagine is someone brought in that is so awful it rips the party in two before they can do anything of consequence, but that is a fairly high-risk route.
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Farage thinks that remainers are "radicalised" in his tweet, after someone threw a milkshake at him
He has the right to think, but I don't think that throwing milkshake is bad enough to call them radicalised. The guy is a loon ball
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He got trapped in a bus today after three men were seen with milk shakes. :laugh:
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:cheesy:
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You could hold up his entire schedule with an empty cup. That would be some quality trolling.
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Oh fuck aye..... :cheesy:
Everyone should grab an empty (or full) milkshake carton and hang around his bus.
He'd be a lactose prisoner. :laugh:
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Lots of claims that the Brexit Party has won a lot of MEPs
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/24/european-elections-2019-results-exit-polls-uk/amp/
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There are no exit polls for these elections, so the Torygraph are probably just polling among their own readership.
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Given how reliable polls have been over the last few elections there isn't any need for more than a casting of the chicken bones.
I'm so sick of all of it. And damn it to buggery, Boris looks like being shoehorned in.
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His fellow MP's don't like him, and they decide on the runners down to the last two.
It's rather disconcerting though, that only about 100,000 people will decide on the next PM, given it's the Tory membership who make the final decision and they have hardly any members.
It's a sham and should go to a General Election.
(And we have the cheek to mock other peoples democracies?)
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But the thing is who the heck would win the next general Election all parties are in so much disarray its scary! and whoever does get in they wont sort brexit out as it was such a close referendum The MP's will never agree on what ever anyone proposes!
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Should have voted for PR when it was on the table, First Past The Post no longer works....as is readily apparent.
PR is anathema to the old school politicians who prefer not to compromise......on anything.
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PR?
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Proportional Representation.
I'm forgetting though that the 2011 referendum wasn't for PR, but for AV (Alternative Vote), which is a bit half arsed.
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Proportional Representation.
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Half an hour in and it looks like Brexit has swept the board.
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Overall, the remain parties (if Labour can be classed as such) got more votes and have more MEP's, despite what Farage and the other hard line Brexiteers may claim.
I still think the underlying motivation and (global?) funding behind Brexit, is to keep the UK and its dependants status as tax havens for the wealthy.
It's just wrapped in a populist veneer.
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I was surprised by how many were fooled by Farage.
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I'm sure the Scottish/English border is in there somewhere.
If only it wasn't so difficult to spot.... :azn:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/x6lhly.jpg)
http://i68.tinypic.com/x6lhly.jpg
(I wonder how it would have looked if there was no SNP) :question:
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Especially given how the northern isles voted.
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They've been Liberal for donkeys years, but I reckon it would be mostly orange and blue without the SNP.
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The irony is Farage says he wants out of the EU, yet he runs for the European election
I think I also heard its constitutional to exit out of Europe without a deal. So what the new PM would think of that, I don’t know
Personally think there should be a general election, but thinking after Farage won so many seats, is it wise to ask for one. I dare to think
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There should be one.
They might get a few MP's, but I don't think people would be stupid enough to elect a party without a manifesto into Government.
If Labour defintivley came out in favour of remaining we could end up with a Liberal/Labour coalition.
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I suppose if a General Election was held today, the Brexit Party would still get a large slice of the vote with or without a manifesto. It would be a single-issue election, no matter how hard parties tried to bring anything else in. What our delightful first-past-the-post system would give with multiple parties for remain and leave would be anyone's guess too.
No aspect of our domestic politics looks particularly fit for purpose these days. I think Brexit should be placed solely with a citizens jury of maybe 1,000 people over six to twelve months to take it out of the career MP's hands. We won't waste any more money than we are currently doing and could reach a properly informed decision. Westminster is hopelessly out of date and should be moved to a modern building, located outside of London, with its members elected through proportional representation.
Maybe in my children's lifetime...
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Another referendum is the only way to solve it in our best interests.
'We' voted to exit, so 'We' should be the ones to decide whether it's still in our best interests or not, given our representatives can't.
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Who's this offish person trying to wrangle their way into our NHS and corporations? I can't wait until someone has the guts to tell him to piss off
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Jeremy Hunt?
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Jeremy Hunt?
He's long gone as Health Secretary. I meant "oafish"
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No-one has done more damage to the NHS over the years than the 'everything is for sale' Tory party.
If they're priming you for privatisation, and the likes of Trump step in to take advantage, then you only have yourselves to blame.
Do you not?
If you want to protect the NHS, then you need to vote accordingly.
It's a no-brainer .
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Btw, I have to say his trip looks more like a Biohazard Incident than a State Visit.
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Proroguing is a new word that's come into play.
In essence, some want to to compel the Queen into suspending the democratic process of the UK in order to push through a policy that appears to have lost the majority of public support.
Republic of Britain anyone?
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Not for me, thanks.
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Ass kisser. :grin:
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I thought we would be waking up a Brexit Party MP today. Mind you, I also thought that by-elections tended to have pretty high turnouts too but 48.4% looks quite poor to me.
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It often seems to me that we're so fed up with scheming politicians that we just can't be bothered. They're not worth our time. I'm delighted Farage lost.
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damn!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48554853
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If at first you don't succeed.... :wink:
I hope we'll see Alexander Boris de Pfeifel Johnson in court again. :cool:
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Yup. That was most disappointing. He needs to be in court just for existing.
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Have we all given up now?
I fucking haven't.
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It's just the hiatus while two dimwits fight it out. As I've said before, it's all so embarrassing, washing our dirty linen in public, the rest of the world laughing in glee.
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Dimwits.... :cheesy:
That's about right enough. :azn:
For all their promises about delivering Brexit, they still have the fundamental problem of getting Parliament to go along with them.
There's also the other fundamental problem of their being no such thing as a No Deal Brexit, since the first thing they'd need to do if we do leave Europe, is to approach them to make a deal.
Boris's refusal to back the FO is also a disgrace.
What does he want as a PM?
Hundreds of ambassadors who's job it is to lie to him to spare foreign blushes?
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Supposedly he's livid about being criticized for that. In the same way he was livid about what the press said about him and his girlfriend. He's a toad.
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BoJo the clown claims he will try to renegotiate the backstop deal, I doubt if he really means it, its pure electioneering
Claiming that kippers have to packed with ice pillows. What a load of nonsense, I hope voters see sense at the next General Election
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As a supporter of Scottish independence I'm all for letting him crack on with it.
I think the TP membership is about 9000 in Scotland, so around 4000 Scots actively voted for him (maybe) to become PM.
That's half the population of my village.
p.s. There's talk of the Scottish TP breaking away from Westminster in order to survive as a political entity.....that's how bad it is.
They think we don't listen to what they say, but we do.
https://i.redd.it/9nee9c3edoc31.jpg
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Yay to the people of Wales. Given Boris something to annoy him.
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If the TP and BP had joined forces they'd have won.
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After the Lib dems win, brexit is more or less dead
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If only. But if it is be prepared for some real social unrest.
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Yeah right Gove, all of a sudden after May went from office, they've suddenly "refusing to negotiate"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49251257
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I fully expect a no-deal Brexit now, and think I always have. The Brexiteers have always wanted that because they don't care about the rest of us.
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Some are laughing all the way to the bank already
https://inews.co.uk/news/tory-donor-bets-300-million-on-losses-for-uk-firms-after-no-deal-brexit/
Apparently he made £200 million shorting UK stocks after the Brexit poll, so this is like winning a rollover using free money.
And that's the whole fucking debacle in a nutshell.
Idiots got fucked over a barrel and they're so stupid they haven't even realised they got fucked yet, with worse to come (literally).
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That got me thinking and I posted this on the r/europe thread in Reddit and they took it down as being low quality.
https://imgur.com/Zmas8wD (Definitely NSFW)
Well...I did misspell his name. :azn:
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Which is coming first? Another General Election or a No Deal exit? They both seem certain before the end of the year and both are about as appealling as being required to disembowel myself with a blunt knitting needle.
There are those lovely fairy tales people are writing about at the moment where a government of national unity is put in place headed by some of those increasingly rare adults in the House of Commons, only for the idea to be pissed all over by most of the other members straight away. It shouldn't be this difficult to avoid wrecking the country.
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I reckon he'll pull a General Election before he's rumbled.
He's got nothing to lose.
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Irony of Brexit, fishermen want more fishing rights over our shores, yet we don't have the ability to patrol the waters that they fish in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49302778
I think people need a reality check really fast
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The government haven't a clue. They never do.
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BoJo the clown declare a no confidence in himself, to push through a no deal, if the backstop isn't sorted.
Personally fed up with the damn thing and want a general election to sort this nonsense once and for all. Vote a party that wants to stay in the EU or Brexit with or without a deal.
Can't carry on forever
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Boris has stepped over the line, he has proroged Parliament
Twitter going into meltdown calling for a general strike
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Words fail, they really do.
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It's fucking outrageous...and the queen can go fuck herself as well.
I wonder how much of the currency that bears her image she dumped yesterday?
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She has no powers to refuse unfortunately
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Of course she has, no-one is holding a gun to her head. :wink:
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It would cause a constitutional crisis that could bring down the monarchy at the very least. That would not be good.
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I think it might already have, her best option would have been a blunt refusal to get involved (or hoofed Mogg clean in the bollocks for having the temerity to drag her into it). It's not unconstitutional because we don't have one.
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Of course she has, no-one is holding a gun to her head. :wink:
True, its too complicated for me to explain, this goes back to the days of King George the 3rd aka the mad one, where Parliament at the time decided to take more powers from the monarch, hence leaving them with basically not a lot of room to do things other than be a more ceremonial monarch. I'm sure that the Queen would want to see a settlement to the crisis. I can't second guess, let alone guess what the Queen thinks. But to take away most of the monarch's powers on the basis of one mad King, is silly. I reckon the monarch should have more powers in their dealings with Parliament.
They've only got a slight problem now, if she did have more powers tomorrow, what really can she do? Most people would be calling for the abolition of the monarchy if they interfered
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So will we even have to wait twenty four hours from when this is posted to the announcement of a general election?
Assuming that one is called to be held between now and 31 October, can any further negotiations be held with the EU during that period? I believe that ministers remain in post through the campaign, but they are surely not in a position to make offers, requests or demands to anyone? Perhaps it's a needless question anyway as there hasn't even been a sniff of anyone in the government having a clue about a realistic proposal towards reaching an agreement. Or even any hint of much desire to achieve one.
Perhaps this is the entire point of it all anyway... campaigning takes away any ability to negotiate, effectively leaving us with nothing other than a no deal crashing out, guaranteeing that the Brexit Party don't need to stand against any Conservative candidates. Javid is cooking up a further pile of bribes to the electorate for Wednesday so large it will make the forest fires in the Amazon look like candles on a toddler's birthday cake. I can't see much cause for optimism anywhere on the horizon.
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I've not been optimistic since the referendum. Three years of feeling betrayed.
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Johnson said that if the legal action outlaws the no deal agreement, then he would. Basically threatening us for him to get booted out..........ok, I can live with that
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I don't really get the point of today's bill to prevent the no deal scenario. As far as I can see it requires Johnson to request a further three month extension, but surely that isn't enough time to achieve anything. Would any longer delay really convince any MPs not to support the bill when this shorter one will? Six months won't even be enough based on our previous performance.
Don't waste it, was the advice for the last extension and the Tories proceeded to waste the summer fighting a leadership battle, game out ways to undermine Parliament and keep trying to gaslight people in to thinking that their apparent plans tally precisely with an overwhelming verdict from the electorate three years ago.
Still, any delay would be better than no delay, to corrupt a phrase.
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It'll thwart Johnsons plans though.
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I don't really get the point of today's bill to prevent the no deal scenario. As far as I can see it requires Johnson to request a further three month extension, but surely that isn't enough time to achieve anything. Would any longer delay really convince any MPs not to support the bill when this shorter one will? Six months won't even be enough based on our previous performance.
Don't waste it, was the advice for the last extension and the Tories proceeded to waste the summer fighting a leadership battle, game out ways to undermine Parliament and keep trying to gaslight people in to thinking that their apparent plans tally precisely with an overwhelming verdict from the electorate three years ago.
Still, any delay would be better than no delay, to corrupt a phrase.
The way I see it, it will delay any US grab and take scenario, where Mr Bolton said that they want to have a trade sector by sector. With the POTUS constantly bleating "America first", I can only think it as that they really mean by "sector by sector" is being delayed also. I can't obviously prove it, but I don't like the sound of that to be honest
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There goes the majority. If Johnson gets his election, I just hope the electorate send a bunch more seats in a similar direction, especially Uxbridge and South Ruislip.
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I'm pro Scottish indy, so we're looking at this Westminster debacle from a distance that isn't just geographical.
We've never voted for a Tory Government in 50 years, because we never trusted the cunts. We did vote labour, but the 'trust' we had evaporated, starting with Blairs War, Browns raping of pensions and not much in the way of forward looking policies since.
So we moved in a different direction long ago.
Current predictions on a GE here are that the SNP would get 52 of the 59 Westminster seats available (I think it's one Labour, a couple of Tories and the rest LibDem)
That's a clear indication for independence from the current, broken and dysfunctional, parliamentary system in Westminster.
... and you can carry on getting your shit stolen from under your tax paying feet as normal.
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The mess needs to be sorted out, I'm so fed up with it to be honest
3 years since the vote, and it seems like we've reached an impasse
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Well Boris isn't. Apparently they're not even bothering to negotiate because Cummins wants a no deal crash out.
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It seems that way, unfortunately. I don't fancy chlorinated chicken to be honest, that is also pumped full of drugs either
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Chicken everywhere is pumped full of antibiotics, it makes them grow really quickly but is a huge problem as far as antibiotic resistance is concerned.
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Not here or in Europe. Not allowed. That's one the main arguments about accepting US chickens.
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Jo Johnson has resigned his quit his post as minister and Tory MP, he voted to Remain apparently. It seems he wanted country before family. Not commenting any further
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All of these moderate Conservatives expelled from the party that are now standing down have surely guaranteed that the party will replace them with govermnent-approved delusional lunatic candidates that Farage's gang might have even questioned the credibility of. The rabid media will keep supporting the party regardless and our hopeless electoral system ensures no seats will be lost when Corbyn gives Johnson his election next week. And they claim it's the EU that's unrepresentative.
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All of these moderate Conservatives expelled from the party that are now standing down have surely guaranteed that the party will replace them with govermnent-approved delusional lunatic candidates that Farage's gang might have even questioned the credibility of. The rabid media will keep supporting the party regardless and our hopeless electoral system ensures no seats will be lost when Corbyn gives Johnson his election next week. And they claim it's the EU that's unrepresentative.
That's the irony of it all. I think most of the population really don't like Corbyn, not because of Antisemitism, personally think that no one in their right minds believes that. Its because he doesn't sing the national anthem. Others just bluster along, I know, but it looks good for those who "sing" it apparently
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All of these moderate Conservatives expelled from the party that are now standing down have surely guaranteed that the party will replace them with govermnent-approved delusional lunatic candidates that Farage's gang might have even questioned the credibility of. The rabid media will keep supporting the party regardless and our hopeless electoral system ensures no seats will be lost when Corbyn gives Johnson his election next week. And they claim it's the EU that's unrepresentative.
That's the irony of it all. I think most of the population really don't like Corbyn, not because of Antisemitism, personally think that no one in their right minds believes that. Its because he doesn't sing the national anthem. Others just bluster along, I know, but it looks good for those who "sing" it apparently
I meant alleged antisemitism, as I don't believe criticism of a country for their appalling human rights record, is antisemitism
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I don't believe that criticism of Israel is anti Semitic either.
And, while we're on the subject I don't sing the 'National Anthem' either...have you read the lyrics?
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Yes. It's why only the first verse is ever sung. Usually.
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Not here or in Europe. Not allowed. That's one the main arguments about accepting US chickens.
Our chicken is riddled with antibiotics, they feed it to them like...well, chicken feed.
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I don't believe that criticism of Israel is anti Semitic either.
And, while we're on the subject I don't sing the 'National Anthem' either...have you read the lyrics?
Not all of it, until now. But the US national anthem is just as atrocious as ours
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I believe there have been some anti-semitic elements within an extreme minority of the Labour membership, unless people are mounting some very convoluted campaigns to discredit them - which wouldn't be impossible, I suppose. Criticising Israel's policies is not anti-semitic. Comparing veiled women to letterboxes is islamaphobic.
Corbyn's appearances at alleged terrorist funerals don't play well, worsened by some mealy-mouthed explanations. He does have a tendency to be overly defensive at times, but I suppose anyone would be with Fleet Street overwhelmingly baying for his blood at any oportunity. His highly equivocal stance in the EU referendum and beyond dismays me and he comes across as more of a campaigner than a politician. I think any of the other potential leaders available to the party since Milliband stood down would have provided a better opposition and look far more like a government-in-waiting by now.
On the anthem, I couldn't care less if he doesn't sing it. When Brenda goes, hopefully it can be replaced in full with something less dirgey. The French, for me, have the best anthem, though maybe we could adopt the Spanish approach to the words...
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Scottish court rules prorogation illegal.
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They should just do another referendum with only one option remain :)
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The leave result in the original referendum certainly covered a massive range of possible interpretations. In the campaigns. the debates and so on, I don't think I heard anyone really admit that the intention was to crash out and indeed I know that I saw spokespeople on the leave side saying that a vote to leave would merely persuade the EU to amend our membership rules and grant us all the control we were supposedly lacking without actually having to leave at all.
To this day, I still haven't heard any benefit that we are supposed to gain from leaving that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. The only justification offered is that it is what the people wanted. A confirmatory referendum on the actual terms with the specific risks and benefits to that scenario does seem like a sensible idea - indeed if the first referendum had only been launched with an accompanying workable plan, perhaps we could have spared ourselves a lot of hassle. I suppose that is a bit like Labour's ridiculed policy at the moment, but at least it isn't a blank cheque approach.
I also enjoyed Raab's comments last week that another extension will cost us £1bn a month, a figure widely shown to be overcooked. Regardless, that's quite a bit cheaper than £350m a week. When the Tories get their way and pull us out, how long before they're justifying cuts because the cost of leaving was always understood by everyone to be so great?
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Ah, but BoJo's thrown his dummy out of the pram and called them biased. Gosh, how intelligent.
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Bad news for
Hitler Farage, Boris doesn't want to deal with them, so even if they had a hung Parliament at the next election, the Breshit Party, if they manage to muster any seats enough to join them to form a government, wouldn't be able to do so
I can see their point, if they have a disagreement, then we might see them split from the government of the day, and cause another unwanted election.
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Ope, here we go. The right wing are starting to push the line that the Judiciary are getting too political, no doubt with a view to reigning them in and changing our legal systems.
Jackboots on the streets by teatime Mother?
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Ope, here we go. The right wing are starting to push the line that the Judiciary are getting too political, no doubt with a view to reigning them in and changing our legal systems.
Jackboots on the streets by teatime Mother?
Its mainly trolls from the US who have vested interest in a no deal Brexit
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Given that Johnson spent two months telling us that he doesn't want an election, won't prorogue parliament and other lies too numerous to recall, I fully expect a full collaboration with Farage's rabble to be in place.
How any of those Etonian, Oxbridge etc tosspots have the audacity to talk about the establishment suggests that this country's understanding of irony is rapidly heading to that of our friends across the Atlantic.
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Its mainly trolls from the US who have vested interest in a no deal Brexit
No it's not. The EU Anti-Tax Avoidance laws that are due to come into force are the primary motivation of the likes of Mogg and Farage.
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So taking a quote from BBC News with comments from Johnson:
Asked whether he had lied to the monarch about his reasons for the suspension, he replied: "Absolutely not."
He added: "The High Court in England plainly agrees with us, but the Supreme Court will have to decide."
Firstly, that must be confirmation that he did lie to the monarch. That said, I imagine she was as able to see through the lie as readily as anyone. Saying no wasn't really an option.
Secondly, and this does depend on if his comments were made directly in the order they are portrayed, I thought that the High Court's verdict was that it was not their place to interpret the governments use of its power in this circumstance. He seems to be implying that the previous decision was arrived at because he has acted with truth and integrity in the whole matter. Why the High Court in England's opinion is referred to anyway is extremely questionable too, since that verdict is legally inferior to yesterday's - but he wouldn't want to miss a chance to spread more division.
Finally, the constrant stream of criticisms, implicit or direct, of the judiciary from the government (and in May's one) are so irresponsible. It does feel like the Daily Mail is going to be getting ready to dust off it's old Hurrah for the Blackshirts headline at some point.
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Scottish Judges ruling in brief. (SKY News and BBC News 24 haven't mentioned any of this so far)
Carloway: “The decision to prorogue in the manner sought was taken against the background of the discussions in which it was being suggested that MPs, and thus Parliament, would be unable to prevent a No-Deal Brexit if time was simply allowed to elapse, without further legislation, until the exit date.
“Put shortly, prorogation was being mooted specifically as a means to stymie any further legislation regulating Brexit.”
Young: “I am of the opinion that the decision to prorogue Parliament for five weeks out of the seven remaining before the United Kingdom is scheduled to leave the European Union leads inevitably to the conclusion that the reason for prorogation was to prevent Parliamentary scrutiny of the government. I find it impossible to see that it could serve any other rational purpose.”
Brodie: “When the manoeuvre is quite so blatantly designed ‘to frustrate Parliament’ at such a critical juncture in the history of the United Kingdom I consider that the court may legitimately find it to be unlawful.”
“What has led me to conclude that the court is entitled to find the making of the Order unlawful is the extreme nature of the case.”
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Who could fault those decisions?
I find Sky mobile news, the reports and articles, to be much better than anything they broadcast.
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Labour's position on Brexit is strange, it's a well known fact that Corbyn wanted the UK to leave EU, we have Emily Thornbury's position saying that if we stayed and had a deal themselves, she would also vote against it. I don't get it, its very strange indeed
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He'll be following the Unions, they don't like Europe because it's putting them out of a job. (If the EU enforces workers rights, there's no place for Unions)
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Some will do better than others, unfortunately
The whole thing is made worse by that fucking ranting Farage who seems to insult people because he is friendly with Trump. He even called the Conservatives' junior press office a "pipsqueak" because his offer to the Conservatives was turned down. The guy really thinks the public will tolerate that sort of nonsense from him
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Joanna Cherry putting it in a nutshell: https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1174260771850768387/video/1
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Whatever the outcome of Brexit, I think we need a codified constitution. Enough of this squabbling, enough of the uncertainties, enough of one subject being the headline on TV all the time
I was aghast that the UK doesn't have one, and yet its regarded as the Mother of all Parliaments
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We've never needed one. Almost every other country you can think of has been created at a certain point in time. The UK did come into existence in `1707 with the Act of Union but really we been around since the Romans, evolving, developing rules and protocols. Yes, altered by William and his cronies in 1066 and the Magna Carta later, but they were agreements that just added to what we already had.
You're right though, but then look at the US. They began with a constitution, which as since been changed, amended, adapted and changed to the point it hardly reflects what the original one set out to be.
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You could maybe have an English one, but probably no chance of a UK or even British one.
For instance, you'd maybe want the Monarch du Jour to be sovereign, but it's not going to happen in Scotland and for a sizeable part of the population of NI.
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To some people, it looks like we're just making things up with a Parliament that isn't codified, but in some respect I think some of it is made up, just didn't notice until now
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Boris just got humped.
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If Johnson had any shred of decency he would resign. I don't think the entire cabinet could scrape together that shred if they were combined though.
Not just that, but Labour pushed through their agnostic stance for the next election based on a disputed call on a show of hands. Johnson will get his election, win it and continue trashing the country.
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The Tories, Labour and LibDems could be wiped out in Scotland, given their various stances, if there was a GE. Welsh Nationalism is on the rise as well apparently.
Then you have Cameron pissing off Queen Liz (twice) and Boris embroiling her in illegal parliamentary activities.
It's fucking hilarious.. :cheesy:
I can't wait until they bring out the wee car that falls to bits.
p.s. If Scotland had voted to become Independent in 2014, Scots Law and the Supreme Court would never have come into play, so the rejection of Gina Millers case would have stood.
(The UK Supreme Court was introduced to resolve the primacy of Scots law in civil cases. Before that the only route of appeal was through the House of Lords)
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I hadn't really worked out the position (or more like the existence) of the Supreme Court - at least it wasn't another thing I had forgotten from my legal framework exam from twenty five years ago. I had been wondering why the government wasn't simply going to take it on to the Lords now.
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So there don't seem to be much support for leaving in this thread, but can you even imagine how the country is supposed to `"come together once Brexit is done" as appears to be the constant refrain we're fed in every interview and news story at the moment? Personally I consider the govermnent's efforts to be unforgivable vandalism against the UK, but there will be people who would feel just as aggrieved if the whole thing was binned. I am sure large elements of those that voted to leave will be upset either way too because they expected a harder or softer exit than may eventually transpire. Who is actually going to be any happier as a result of this?
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I'm fairly sure if they binned it there would be literal rioting in the streets like the French Yellow Jackets, or worse.
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I don't think so. It's generally the poorest in society that riot, and the poorest in society will probably be the worst affected by Brexit.......given that, there may be rioting if they force a crash exit.
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There's definitely going to be a backstop, whether brexiters like it or loathe it
Its to stop the US using us to put in their crap via a no backstop border
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Since Ireland is in the EU they can't come through there to get to us.
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Since Ireland is in the EU they can't come through there to get to us.
I meant the US (of A)
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I think you need to look again at what the backstop is for Ritchie
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I think you need to look again at what the backstop is for Ritchie
I do know what's it for to stop unauthorised goods getting in
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It's to keep the free trade zone active between the Republic of Ireland (which is in the EU) and Northern Ireland (which could be dragged out of the EU).
It has nothing to do with the USA or anywhere else and has everything to do with the Good Friday Agreement.
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Adverts on TV telling us the inevitable, brexit is coming
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Armageddon.
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It is utterly ridiculous that they can't actually tell us what the effects will be. We are being made aware it is coming, but it is still little more defined than it was when they were telling their fairy tales in the referendum. How can anyone take the country seriously anymore?
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I the run up to the Indy Ref the SNP had a paper (https://www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf) available, 670 pages of it, detailing all aspects of Independence.
Westminster has barely managed a pamphlet of the effects of Brexit, the useless cunts. And that's after the fact.
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They’ve come up with deal, but has to be accepted by both Parliament and the EU
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Doesn't look like Parliament will except it either!
Even though i voted to remain i am getting increasingly annoyed with politicians who seem to completely ignore their constituents (albeit only 52% of them) and seem determined to drag this out longer and longer, its not them who are suffering with this to be honest they should just get it over with now its been years since the referendum!
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It wasn’t voted on a constituent basis, if it had, May’s version would have been accepted and we would have been out by now
Tbh, I’m sick of the whole affair
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That's what they're hoping for, people to just say 'fuck it, no deal it is'.
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Tomorrow it begins, or doesn't.
Can you imagine what it's going to be like if they pass the proposal to begin the actual Brexit negotiations?
It'll have taken three years just to decide whether you will or not.
Seen this from the Bangkok Post? https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/dj6c7e/bangkok_posts_take_on_brexit :cheesy:
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The Laundromat on Netflix aims squarely at the USA, but it's also a Brexit movie.
We already know that London doesn't want its tax affair scrutinised under the new EU laws. (That's the only bit of 'taking back our laws' they're interested in. )
They don't want to among those who get caught out with their snouts in the troughs of world wide corruption.
I've always resented how our media have been representing General Elections as if they're Presidential Elections (presenting it as a vote for a figurehead) in the last 20 odd years, it's an entirely different political system.
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Interestingly..
If Boris doesn't comply with the Benn Act to call for a Brexit extension tonight, then the Scottish Court can send a letter, which carries the same legal weight as the PM sending it himself, to the EU asking for one.
So he's backed into a corner, but he can rightfully claim that he never asked for an extension himself.
If that's the case we can probably expect to see some anti Scotland rhetoric in the coming weeks, which will play into the hands of the Scottish Independence movement.
(Some 'little englander' MP's have a tendency to forget that the UK is made up of four nations and throw a hairy fit when it suddenly confronts them)
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I hate Little Englanders. They're the worst of people.
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They have disproportionately loud voices in the media though.
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As do most fools.
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So he sent an unsigned photocopy of an extension request to the EU
Smells like contempt of court. (Not something they take lightly)
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At this point I would take no deal as an option, its all rather annoying now
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There's no such thing as a 'no deal' Brexit.
If you crashed out, you'd have to adopt WTO regulations on the same level as some of the worst dirtbox countries on the planet, and immediately have to start trade negotiations with the EU and the rest of the world from the worst position imaginable.
Lets face it, you've already shat in your own bed.
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I see the latest Boris tactic is to hit parliament with a particularly fat AUP they hoped no-one would read.
...then moan when MP's said they'd like to read it and send out his gobshites to say it's 'pretty much' the same as the ones they've seen in the last three years.
So he's gone for a policy of not much information to a flood, that needs to get through in a rush, in a diversionary tactic that wouldn't fool a five year old.
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Kicked down the road by three months again.
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And we have ourselves a general election
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Could be the last
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Streams of refugees forming lines to get into Calais from our side. Us.
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To register for a vote?
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To get out of Britain to move somewhere else. Anywhere else, but not France. They have so much bother of their own in different ways.
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The election campaign is going to be pure torture.
What, exactly, was the purpose of the last Queen's speech too? How many times in his premiership has Johnson participated in PMQs? It would probably be worthwhile releasing the Russia report ahead of us having an election as well if it indicates that Putin may have a few designs on how that is played out.
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My mind was made up ages ago, so they can promise anything they like.
I'm not listening.
Still, different situation in Scotland.
The majority seem to want to break away from the legal, social and political systems we see south of the border, or the erosion of our own in favour of them.
If Russia have a hand in the breakup of the Union, they're going about it kinda backwards. We don't see much anti unionist propaganda given we're mostly ignored or under reported, but if it's there, it seems to be working on the right wing of politics, given the pro unionist propaganda is far more vitriolic in these matters.
If there's one thing that may have swung more Scottish voters towards Independence, it's the sight of the Tory benches in the House of Commons emptying when the SNP stand up to speak.
What is their motivation for that would you say?
From our side, it looks like contempt.
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There was a Malawian comedian on the radio the other day who made a good point/joke.
He said that anyone who thinks that negotiating a trade deal is 'easy' obviously never read the iTunes agreement, and that was just to listen to music. :grin:
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It's the thing Leavers can't seem to get their heads around, at least the ones I've spoken to.
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It's possibly wilful ignorance, but there's no excuse for that any more.
I also don't understand why so many politicians are leaving politics because of the threats they get through Social Media, surely it would be easier to just bin the Social Media accounts, or run them through a mediation/moderation team, so that the worst is filtered and no direct (ad hominem) threat is possible.
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I suspect they're quitting because they don't want to be blamed for the mess they've made of teh whole thing.
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"I didn't pass the 8th grade for this shit man! I'm bugging out"
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...don't know why I posted that tbh. (Never get out of the boat?)
Hell knows. :grin:
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Nigel having his gob shut with the promise of a knighthood? (If I had one, and he gets one, I'd be handing it back.)
..and I forgot to add, he's humped almost everyone who stumped up a deposit to stand in his 'party'.
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I see that by the end of this year, Brexit will have cost the UK roughly the same amount as it's Net contributions to the EU in the last 47 years.
So, we've already pumped £200Bn into it and in the space of 5 years, will have lost another £200Bn getting out of it, so where is the benefit exactly?
(Figures vary from £72Bn from one brexit supporting source to £170Bn - £200Bn among the financial papers)
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That was because of all the uncertainty surrounding whether we would exit the EU, it has cost us that amount
The sterling had suffered because that uncertainty
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You mean the uncertainty that has led to the current 'deal' being essentially the same deal Theresa May came up with, along with some proposals made by the EU years ago?